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With the exception of "The Back Alley", CIVIL DISCUSSION IS EXPECTED
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Many Democrats fear Trump is laying an impeachment trap
Analysis by Stephen Collinson, CNN Updated 7:25 AM ET, Mon May 13, 2019
(CNN)It seems a crazy idea that any president would actually want to be impeached.
But Donald Trump has so subverted Washington logic with his wild, norm-crushing presidency that there is now a serious conversation -- at least among Democrats -- about whether he views the ultimate constitutional crisis as a weapon in his re-election campaign.
The possibility is shaping the strategies of Democratic leaders as they weigh the political risks of impeachment and their duty to defend principles of American governance.
Many Democrats fear that Trump may be laying an impeachment trap that could consume the House majority, distract them from key issues like health care and alienate persuadable voters.
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Pros and cons exist for impeachment.
At this time they offset each other.
Trump knows it won't pass the Senate.
But pro impeachment Democrats also know hearings will bring all Trump troubles into the spotlight, and closer to election this can be pushed, the greater damage to Trump AND the Senate who protects him will be.
There is no rush to do this. Trump is lamed. Nothing will get through the House for his signature.
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I think the latest comments by Mueller, supporting the fact that his Report provides evidence for impeachment but indicating that was not his job, has fired up a few more Democrats who are going to move to do the right thing and impeach this President.
Dems need to stop huddling around and wondering what to do, and do the RIGHT thing. Is it the most politically expedient thing? Perhaps not. But how much longer can we worry about expediency while this criminal tears the country apart?
Dems need to move forward. Don't overthink - or overcalculate - this.
Last edited by greenman (5/29/2019 3:02 pm)
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I reiterate my earlier advice to Democrats.
Impeach cleanly. Don't make it personal. Do it dispassionately, concentrating on abuses of power and criminal acts. Don't allow the president to turn it into a circus. Don't try to stretch it out. Don't milk it for political power. Do it, and do it quickly and efficiently.
Let the people see the evidence, and let them see who continues to cover for the president. You already know that the Senate is unlikely to follow through. But you also increasingly understand that not impeaching Trump carries a lot of negative consequences for the future. So, consider all that together and do the only thing you can. Impeach with full knowledge that Republicans will be the craven cowards they will be.
Do it so that the people understand it was done for the good of the nation, NOT the Democratic Party. And then move on.
But you can't just let this go unanswered. Justin Amash (a Republican!) said as much.
Amadeus
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Congress has another option:
Investigate and bring evidence into the open,
then censure.
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Censure? Not impeachment ??
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Censure used to have a meaning, but I'm not sure it still does; I'm CERTAIN it has no meaning to Trump, who would just laugh it off and mock Democrats further.
It's a serious condemnation where gentlemen were concerned. No gentlemen left to speak of...
Last edited by greenman (5/29/2019 6:58 pm)
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Siagiah wrote:
Censure? Not impeachment ??
When Newt Gingrich was censured, he was so outraged and offended, he resigned.
Censure means made irrelevant. Democrats can do to him what Mitch McConnell did to Merrick Garland.
Completely shut down any Trump agenda, and refuse to even listen to him until a new president is elected.
It is another option, and unlike impeachment which won't pass the Senate, where Trump can lie victory, censure will deny Trump that platform.
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I get the clear and distinct feeling if modern Republicans could talk with George Washington, they'd likely tell Grandpa to calm down, sit down and take a nap; they have work to do.
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greenman wrote:
Censure used to have a meaning, but I'm not sure it still does; I'm CERTAIN it has no meaning to Trump, who would just laugh it off and mock Democrats further.
It's a serious condemnation where gentlemen were concerned. No gentlemen left to speak of...
Investigation path to censure is the same as for impeachment. All Trump's crimes will be brought out and proven. This can last right up until the election. If new discovery is found, that can be added in, and censure can also lead to impeachment.
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Then CENSURE it is. That could work.
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I'm not sure censure has any meaning outside of Congress.
Amadeus
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Amadeus wrote:
I'm not sure censure has any meaning outside of Congress.
Amadeus
Maybe not, but if it results in lots of noise and investigation that the public would see, hear, and read about, then it could do the same job as impeachment by the house that would be refused by the senate. I think that's the thinking behind censure vs impeachment
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Siagiah wrote:
Amadeus wrote:
I'm not sure censure has any meaning outside of Congress.
AmadeusMaybe not, but if it results in lots of noise and investigation that the public would see, hear, and read about, then it could do the same job as impeachment by the house that would be refused by the senate. I think that's the thinking behind censure vs impeachment
It would be similar to what McConnell did to Merrick Garland too. No movement until a new president is elected. If enough Trump crimes can be uncovered so Trump supporting GOP Senators are threatened with removal by their constituencies, then censure could move into impeachment, trial, conviction, and removal from office.
Pence would be a lame duck because he went along with everything Trump did.
The House must do something decisive and effective. The new blood surging in unanimously wants to impeach, and they were elected to do that. It reflects a national understanding about Trump. But the Senate is defiant and will protect Trump no matter what, solely for partisan power reasons. Many Senators, owned by the "preachers" or preachers themselves, believe they act in the will of God, and they won't compromise.
Trump can and will claim complete exoneration. But more importantly having had a trial in the Senate, he CAN'T be tried again once he leaves office. Meaning what ever crimes he committed, he gets away with. He uses double jeopardy to once again, escape justice.
IMO, every Republican who puts party and power over the Constitution to protect this president needs to be removed from office as well. But many live in Bible belt states where Bible thumper constituents are happy with their godly and divine defiance. Many take Trump's crimes and pin them on the Democrats. They want Comey, Clinton, Strzok, Clapper, Brennan, and Obama not just tried, but jailed. How do you fight that kind of ignorance and superstition?
Last night I made a discovery. A troll wrote a pro-Trump, anti-Mueller post that contained words written and spelled like a Russian would likely use. You know how the written word is a window into the mind? This was very clearly written by a Russian who spoke English well. It might have gone unnoticed, but for the peculiar "Russian" spelling of the word. I noticed it because of the many Russians I know, and that I speak Russian as well. One word in question was "indicted." The "c" was absent. Then as I looked at other words in posts from this troll, silent English letters were uniformly always missing, and missing in the same way. Something peculiar and unique to the way Russians who speak English, write.
I am convinced I saw an example of Russian presence in American social media stirring the pot for Trump and against his enemies. Mueller was viciously attacked, If what I saw is correct, and I believe it is, not only is the attack at it again, and perhaps never abated, but it is more widespread than anyone can imagine. It capitalizes on American illiteracy. You see the incredibly poor command so many Americans write with every day. Trump is one of them. Look at his command of English in his tweets!
He and his administration persist in ignoring warnings from the US intelligence community, and Trump himself said he believes Putin. Absolutely he must be removed from office. So must Pence, and that is another trouble.
This is a bonafide Constitutional crisis.