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- Pikes Peak 14115
- Moderator
Offline - From: The Colorado Rockies
- Registered: 2/17/2019
- Posts: 951
Re: So, the Dems can't decide on whether to go for impeachment or hold off
SES wrote:
When have I ever said that he didn't obstruct?
What I've said is that the whole investigation was a sham, started illegally, and that it would be entrapment to accuse someone of obstructing an investigation that should never have happened in the first place.
The only case of obstruction that I think is anything deals with the infamous "Trump Tower Meeting", where the President had a line deleted that said that the meeting involved "information helpful to the campaign". Bt that's flimsy, since no "information" was ever exchanged.
To me, none of the other "attempts" to obstruct amount to anything. I've read them. Nothing.
IMO, Trump is attempting to goad Democrats into an impeachment attempt, knowing it is futile because of protection in the Senate. He thinks such an attempt will backfire against the Democrats in the way it backfired against Republicans when they attempted to impeach Clinton.
It is more likely an impeachment attempt will backfire on Democrats the way the Nixon resignation in the face of certain impeachment did. If the effort failed, which is predictable simply because of the numbers, voters will enforce it in 2020, removing Trump from the presidency, and Republicans in the House and Senate responsible for protecting him.
You can look away from a painting, but you can't listen away from a symphony
- Pikes Peak 14115
- Moderator
Offline
- From: The Colorado Rockies
- Registered: 2/17/2019
- Posts: 951
Re: So, the Dems can't decide on whether to go for impeachment or hold off
Source: Mueller Report, Volume II, Executive Summary:
1. The Campaign's response to reports about Russian support for Trump - NOT OBSTRUCTION
2. Firing of Flynn - FIRED FOR VALID REASONS, NOT TO OBSTRUCT
3. Asking Comey to go easy on Flynn - NOT OBSTRUCTION
4. The President's reaction to the continuing Russia investigation - NOT OBSTRUCTION
5. The President's firing of Comey - FIRED FOR VALID REASONS, NOT TO OBSTRUCT
6. Efforts to remove the Special Counsel - THE PRESIDENT SUGGESTED IT, BUT WAS CONVINCED BY STAFF NOT TO DO IT, NEVER DID IT, NOT OBSTRUCTION
7. Efforts to curtail the Special Counsel's investigation - THE PRESIDENT WANTED THE AG TO DECLARE THAT THE PRESIDENT HAD DONE NOTHING WRONG (HE HADN'T), IT WAS NEVER DONE, NOT OBSTRUCTION
8. Efforts to prevent public disclosure of evidence - RELATING TO THE "TRUMP TOWER MEETING", THE PRESIDENT'S EFFORTS WERE ONLY RELATED TO PUBLIC DISCLOSURE, NOT TO ANYTHING THAT WOULD BE OR HAD BEEN LEARNED BY THE SPECIAL COUNSEL, NOT OBSTRUCTION
9. Further efforts to have AG Sessions take control of the investigation - THE PRESIDENT SAID THAT HE TOLD SESSIONS THAT HE WAS NOT GOING TO DO ANYTHING OR DIRECT HIM TO DO ANYTHING. NOT OBSTRUCTION
10. Efforts to have McGahn deny that the President had ordered him to have the Special Counsel removed - REFERS BACK TO #6. NOTHING EVER CAME OF IT. NOT OBSTRUCTION.
11. Conduct towards Flynn, Manafort, [redacted] - NOT OBSTRUCTION
12. Conduct involving Michael Cohen - NOT OBSTRUCTION
The President said and suggested and directed a lot of things, most of which never actually happened. He took actions, such as firings, for valid reasons, not in order to obstruct, even if those actions could have had that effect. Other actions were intended strictly to protect his own "ego" and "image", not to obstruct the investigation.
Added to that you have all of the ways that the Trump Administration cooperated with the investigation.
There's a whole lot of nothing there.
Your capitalized additions to this summary are (your) opinions. Not facts or conclusions to facts presented in the Report. You're not about to snow anyone here with these lies and efforts to lie.
You can look away from a painting, but you can't listen away from a symphony
- Amadeus
- Moderator
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- Registered: 2/17/2019
- Posts: 53
Re: So, the Dems can't decide on whether to go for impeachment or hold off
I was about to ask for some actual quotes to back up the post by SES, but Pikes beat me to it.
You can't cite Barr's spin as part of the Mueller Report.
Amadeus
- Siagiah
- Administrator
Offline
- From: New England, U.S.A.
- Registered: 2/16/2019
- Posts: 2,313
Re: So, the Dems can't decide on whether to go for impeachment or hold off
SES - Do you have a law degree ?? At a minimum, more than 500 retired federal judges have weighed in that they WOULD pursue "Obstruction of Justice" charges.
Also, using Barr's summary of the report does NOT qualify as READING THE REPORT anymore than someone reading op ed pieces about it does.
You're a smart fella, surely you can read at least SOME of it for yourself to see if what you read matches up to what Barr claimed about it. When it doesn't, that should clue you that Barr misrepresented what is in it.
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